Saturday 12 January 2008

Joining the smelly dots

As the illegal billboard story unfolds, exposed here on CairnsBlog, we can today reveal more details of this saga.

On Friday, a second Kevin Byrne / Unity Team political billboard was installed on the roof of CEC property magnate Roy Larvis' office in Ray Jones Drive, Portsmith.

The site of the first billboard installation, opposite Stanton Road, Smithfield, is on land owned by the developers of North Point, a multi-million dollar project that is touting to be the site of the proposed new Smithfield town centre. This is similar to that of the Southside's Edmonton town centre.

The Local Home Loans Group are wrapped up in the adjoining $50m+ 41.32 hectare residential and commercial project, is already well underway on reclaimed sugar cane fields, that has had a long history of wet season flooding.

Local Home Loans Group have participated in the Mayor's trade mission to China in 2006, with his quango group, Advance Cairns.

It is the outcomes of this group and Council's investment that CairnsBlog has called into question on a number of occasions, especially in relation to it's trade missions to China. Cairns Mayor Kevin Byrne has hosted these trips over the last seven years.

In the annual plan, Cairns City Council funds the organisation $250,000 p.a. It states that Advance Cairns is the "peak economic development agency for Far North Queensland with a purpose to promote growth and business development in the region."

It is also funded by the Cairns Port Authority.

Former CEO of Advance Cairns, David Maguire, travelled on some of these 'trade missions'. The former Cairns Post editor, Maguire, is now working in publishing in China. The website has still not listed any details or reports from the last 2007 trade mission.

Getting answers of achievements and outcomes of Advance Cairns has proved difficult.

Most debriefs following these trade missions to the full Council are done behind closed doors. This is where the public and media are removed from the Council Debating Chamber. Cairns City Council, under Mayor Byrne's leadership, has been questioned by the State Government about this repeated practice.

In 2005, the Cairns Post investigated this and reported that secret meetings were probably unconstitutional and illegal. There are times when matters of confidence need to be dicussed in closed session, but these are rare.

Former Mulgrave Mayor, Tom Pyne told CairnsBlog that his Council strongly discouraged this way of running Council. "I believed in an open public Council, and this is not something I nor that my Council supported."

Pyne, who served for 30 years in public office, was Mayor from 1996 to 2000.

At the March 24th 2005 Council meeting, there was another closed door session. During this, there was a 20 minute presentation from Mayor Byrne about his ratepayer-funded trip to China of that year. Why these are held in closed session is beyond comprehension to most ordinary residents, who should have access to this information.

The Mayor's China debrief was not listed on the Council Minutes. At this same meeting, items about (ironically) a Community Satisfaction Survey, tenders and a planning appeal were all discussed and voted on in closed private session. Yet when the minutes were published, they showed these were done in open (public) session.

The then Cairns Post Council reporter, Kerri-Ann Stout revealed that this breached the local Government Act, requiring voting to be held in public. Under Queensland State law, Council was discussing matters that should not be held away from public scrutiny.

Speaking to CairnsBlog from Geelong, Kerri-Ann [Hobbs, as she is now known] said that it was important to ask questions and open public debate. "Media should ask questions. I noted back in 2005 that they [Council] should be open and accountable, the basic ingredient of a democratic government."

The Post editorial at the time said that part of the media's role is to be sceptical of governments and the process of Council reporters and members of the public is to ask if there is a reason to hide discussion from the public.

As the 2008 local body election nears, we need a Cairns Post and a local media that will investigate, explore and ask hard questions.

CairnsBlog exclusively revealed two weeks ago that Council Minutes are removed from the Council website after 4 short months, making it difficult to get information. This is in stark contrast to every neighbouring Shire.

Douglas Shire Council retains all previous Council minutes for every year online. Johnstone Shire does the same. As do Mareeba and Cook Shire. Eacham Shire and Cardwell also publish theirs online.

A Council spokesperson claimed that this is 'to make room for the latest most current ones only'. "We've never had any questions about this before," he said anonymously on the CairnsBlog comments.

Ready and easy access to Council records and decisions is a very fundamental part of democracy. Council is a public organisation, dealing with millions of dollars of public funds, yet Cairns City Council is carrying on like it's a private business.

Ratepayers and private citizens have to apply for a Freedom of Information to access information, along with a fee, before any information is released. This can take weeks or even months. The information is often censored with black markers to hides details and names when and if the information is granted.

Cairns City Council also applies additional fees, depending on how much time and the amount of documents requested.

Whilst any local government should be promoting and developing trade opportunities with emerging markets, repeated questions to this Council have never been greeted with satisfactory answers regarding the investment in repeated missions China.

It was through raising numerous questions about the $2m+ investment by Cairns City Council since 2001, that was the trigger for Mayor Kevin Byrne to take the extraordinary step to sue CairnsBlog for defamation in September last year.

"This was an attempt to silence a voice in the community," says CairnsBlog author Michael Moore. "We weren't saying that Council-funded trips to China or elsewhere were wrong, merely we questioned the return on investment of ratepayer-funded missions. We wanted to know what we were getting back as a community and our local economy," Moore says.

Mayor Byrne has continued a pattern of trying to stop public debate through legal threats from Council-funded lawyers. It is difficult to know exactly how many, but conservative estimates suggest that up to 50 such legal threats have been commenced by this Mayor.

"It's preposterous that when a ratepayer publicly discusses and questions how public money is spent and the ROI, he gets a gag order from the mayor's legal team," says Michael Moore.

Around $2,500 in legal costs was spent by CairnsBlog and it's supporters in November 2007 to defend their right to discuss these issues. This including paying costs to the Council's legal firm, Williams Graham Carmen.

The process of using ratepayer funds to finance a defamation case against a ratepayer to speak out, is very unusual. CairnsBlog is still seeking legal advice if this is appropriate and a legal use of public funds.

"If John Howard took out legal action against everyone who spoke out against him, he would have kept 100 lawyers occupied full time for years," says Michael Moore.

Mayor Byrne appears very thin-skinned when he will not tolerate dissenting views, nor engage in debate with his residents and defend his public expenditure.

Questioning public officials is a democratic right and as other media outlets often fail to pursue such causes, independent journalists need to do this.

Following the 2005 trade mission, the achievements were are noted as "education agreement between James Cook University and Royal Brisbane International College Hong Kong for students to Cairns, with a starting date to be decided. Also an agreement between James Cook University & The Omega Group and Zhongshan Municipal People's Government for delivery of Tourism Management training, starting December 2005. There was also an agreement between Sanxin Middle School and The Omega Group for the provision of education programs, and progress towards the establishment of a Sister School relationship between Zhanjiang No. 2 Middle School and Trinity Anglican School.

In 2006 LHL Investments participated in the trade mission to China with the Mayor. LHL are also patrons and financial contributors to Advance Cairns.

Pictured [right] is LHL Investments Carl Williams, turning the first soil at Smithfield's Northpoint development, who along with CEC, are building on this large area of land.

LHL are seeking council approvals for the substantial developments adjacent to the Mayor's Unity political billboard.

A regular contributor to the comments on CairnsBlog defending Council and the Mayor's actions, under the pseudonym of 'Factman' widely believed to be the former Mayor's personal assistant and now election campaign manager, Dennis Quick, said the billboard is not a political sign.

"It does note [sic] say, 'Vote for Kev'. It is a statement of fact. 'Kevin Byrne and Unity - creating Australia's most LIVEABLE city.' "

He explains how Kevin Byrne gets around this contravention of local By Law 28 that disallows political advertising larger that .6 sq mt.

"In fact it is a sign with existing approval, Northpoint Subdivision Development [LHL], with changed wording. Nothing wrong with that."

The billboard sign, prior to Monday, hosted advertising for the LHL NorthPoint property sales.

Mayor Byrne has been particular strong against illegal signage dotting our roads and has hauled a few councillors up about this including Sno Bonneau. Last month Byrne ordered the removal of a large Taipans sign from the Esplanade Lagoon pool area following numerous complaints about the 'visual pollution' and the inappropriateness of large commercial advertisng gracing the Esplanade.

"It will need to be removed, but they can put in in City Place if they want to," Mayor Byrne announced on his regular slot on John McKenzie's 846AM radio show.

At a recent Council meeting, additional approvals sought by LHL for the remaining land was attempted to be fast tracked. A number of Councillors objected and what appeared to be a rushed process and routed it to a workshop that occurred two weeks ago.

During this forum, CairnsBlog has been informed that there were heated exchanges between the Mayor and Councillor Shephard where he shouted to "shut up", after continual probing about certain aspects of the approvals sought by this developer.

This may be a tangled web, however CairnsBlog wishes to involve the public in this debate and the information surrounding how decisions are made.

The second large billboard that appeared on Friday on the roof of CEC's Portsmith property office is also located in an interesting location.

CEC have enjoyed a strong relationship with the current mayor and are one of the region's foremost developers. It is important that they have a supportive local government administration to work with.

On the reverse side of the mayor's Portsmith election billboard, is another advertising CEC's massive 370 unit development in Manunda. CairnsBlog revealed last week that The Boulevarde, as it is called, highly promoted and endorsed by the Mayor's radio mate John McKenzie, does not want a 3 story apartment complex in his own street.

In a final piece of irony, the billboard's location is next door to the CEC-owned Bedminster refuse processing station, has had a history of problems, least of which is the huge odour and unpleasant smells often making it to neighbouring residential suburbs.

There are many bad smells with this Council. This has been one of them.


Anonymous said...

Most of the "trade" missions to China are to obtain Chinese finance. The so called "development boom" in Cairns is financed by Chinese and Singaporean dollars.

Anonymous said...

The Financial Review Nov 16-18 said,
"overseas buyers spent almost $26 million in the Cairns real estate market in 2005/06 financial year with an average spend of $226,640 per dwelling.
Most of the foreign investment was was from Japanese, British, New Zealanders, Americans and Irish visitors." No mention of the Chinese, however, it would not surprise me as Chinese speaking languages are the second most common language spoken in Queensland after English (Census 2006).

It was reported in the Fin Review that ABS reported a poor 65 percent occupancy rate for the 12/12 prior to June 07 in Cairns.

So it looks like our tourism industry in on the way down, and we are going to be a city owned by overseas investors, who rent out their properties, with a not interested attitude towards our communities and little in the way of responsibility for upkeep, type of tennants they have etc. - as long as their investments bring in the returns.

Anonymous said...

Doesn't surprise me that the tourist industry is going down.
Parts of the CBD look just like little Tokyo. The night markets could be any Asian city. The distinctive Queensland architecture has disappeared and modern buildings have the same characterless uniformity you see all over the world. Kuranda is over commercialised, ditto Port Douglas.
Cairns isn't "laid back". The city resounds with roaring jets, and the roar of traffic along its main arterial roads. There are traffic snarls and jams and long queues at every single service outlet. Restaurants are crowded and service is slow. A visit to a Medical Center can take hours of waiting and taxis are often just not available. All of this has been noted by our tourists even if the "powers that be" are in a state of denial.

Anonymous said...

Perception is everything Factman. You can throw around as many facts and justifications as you like but it won’t change the inescapable fact that “a picture paints a thousand words.” What is evident around Cairns says it all and none more so than the galvanizing reality of Glencorp’s developments at Clifton Beach which will prove to be Council’s undoing something I suspect Councillor Bonneau knows only too well. What a legacy! It defines “inappropriate” and illustrates everything that is wrong with this Council. Good governance includes among many things, respect for the intent of and adherence to its own planning scheme, policies and laws together with revision and remedy of inconsistencies and problems where identified. This is where council fails miserably. Here we have, in a small coastal suburb with serious erosion problems, 3 massive developments within a 350m strip delivering in excess of 1000 residents that will have an enormous impact on adjoining property owners and the local community and environment but code assessable not impact assessable leaving the community totally powerless to do anything. The Beaches planning district identifies Clifton Beach as a discrete residential community [nothing discrete about it now] which is intended to remain primarily as an area for conventional residential living with scope for some medium density residential living. Residential 3 is medium density zoning where scale and density contributes to a high standard of residential amenity. It comes with a height restriction of 11.5m. [Anything over that is classified as a “tall building.”] Straight forward you might think but in comes the inconsistency through the Land use code for multiple dwellings which allows a maximum of 4 storeys. Add to that basements and semi-basements which are excluded from the definition of storey and hey presto you have 5 level complexes. As Council knows only too well, where inconsistencies arise, the codes are sequenced in such a way that the Land Use code prevails. Further, when deciding development applications Council is not allowed to compromise the achievement of a planning scheme’s Desired Environmental Outcomes. Numerous DEOs are compromised including this one, “new development in established areas should respect and be compatible with the identity and character of the locality as well as contributing to the strengthening of the sense of community.” Need I say more? This is not an isolated occurrence. It’s happening all over the Northern Beaches and elsewhere in association with unnecessary and senseless destruction of waterways, habitats and vegetation including so called “protected vegetation.” That’s the issue Factman. Pretty straightforward I would have thought, but something Council seems unable or unwilling to grasp.

Anonymous said...

It is easy to get around Kevin Byrne or any other councillor threatening defamation lawsuits etc. Aim your rocks at the Cairns City Council, not at individuals. The council as a body cannot sue for defamation, only an individual can.

Of course, it is not as much fun, but neither is going to court.

Anonymous said...

So Anonymous(and everyone else)..
If you could be Mayor for a day what would you change?

Our Council is clueless, so let's give them a few hints on what it is that the people of Cairns really DO want in their new City!!!

I'll start...

I think Cairns and the surrounding commumities have grown too big not to have a plan for a commuter rail service.
On the southside we have a railway track that isn't being used except by a train taking people to Brisbane.
To the North the track runs through Freshwater , Redlynch than up to Kuranda and tablelands but is only used for a tourist train but not for the local residents needs.
The Northern Beaches don't
even have a plan for a track( I don't think) which is ridiculous considering the population growth and the distance to the CBD.
Maybe Council just thinks that we are all wealthy and can all afford to run a couple of cars per family and we aren't the type of people who care about environmental issues, traffic congestion or fuel prices?
If so, this view would be incorrect.

Now say what it is YOU want before it's too late.

Anonymous said...

Kazba .. I like your idea. What would we all do if we where Mayor for a day..
The first thing I would do is sack all the councillors, and resign without severence pay.
That should help fix the problems

Anonymous said...

Another thing that smells is the way the residents of Hutchings St. have been treated.
Many houses in that street were flooded, for the second time in 2 years causing $100,000s worth of damage.
The main cause of this was the extension of the Parks Retirement homes which used to be a low lying area until the "developer" raised the site a few metres, causing the water to back up in Hutchings St.
and the Australia Post property in McCoombe St. 2 years ago.
But Australia Post didn't have to worry because the Cairns City Counsel paid for a levy bank & a new back fence.
I'm guessing AP has better lawyers than CCC and the residents of Hutchings St, well thats just the way the cookie crumbles in Cairns.

Anonymous said...

Chinaman's overtopped this time because the stream flow in Clark Creek overtopped the bridge in Ishmael Road, (which was blocked with debris), and entered Chinaman' Creek canal (flowing at full capacity) upstream of it's normal entry point.
You realise tha nearly 200mmm of torrential rain dumped in 3 hours. That alone will stretch any drainage system.
Interestingly, a lot of the tree branch/trunk debris removed from under the bridge had evidence of saw cuts. Obviously some residents use these streams to get rid of their garden waste.

Oh well, I guess it's all Kev's fault.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Michael for your blog...CEC spent $1.52 million on advertising and marketing last year, does any one know of a company of similar size spending that much on making itself look good?....their shares have dropped to 2.50 their lowest in 3 years, I think CEC's funding of the upcoming elections will add to a shocking year for Warren, Bob & Roy

Anonymous said...

I'd start at 8am on my day as Mayor..
I'd get Jamie Durie and the BackYard Blitz Team in to quickly do "something tropical" with the City Place before anyone else sees it.

8.30am - Rip down that Toadstool/Mushroom thingy and put up something strikingly beautiful and interesting to look at with a water feature to cool things down. Something that says "Welcome to Cairns, an international tourist desination and vibrant City."

9am- Approve plans to put in some covered walkways, paths and shade trees all around Cairns near Shopping Centres, Retirement Homes, Schools, Bus stops, Beaches ect.

9:30am-Find places where a pedestrian/cycle overpass might be useful to locals and vistors. Over Mulgrave Road, somewhere between Ishmael Road and Balaclava Rd would be first.

10am-Hire a team to get started on an advertising campaign to encourage public transport, by having "Travel free on Public Transport Day" once a month. I know a few places were there will be billboard space shortly.

10:15- Swing by Factman's desk just to say hi.

10:30am- I will be on the phone ordering the purchase of buses and trains that have special compartment spaces for your bike/ pram/wheelchair/ shopping baskets ect.

11.30am - Order that all houses and other developments in Cairns that have rainwater tanks, solar panels and are correctly designed with roof cooling vents ect, so as not to need air cons throughout, be given a special discount off their rates.

12pm -Lunch with Jim Turnour(not at Villa Romano) to discuss progress of two 24 hour super medical clinics (mini hospitals) to be built at Edmonton and Smithfield.

1pm- Order review of all new unit developments and sub divisions as to their liveability, social and environmental impact.

2pm- Have someone fix the flooding problems around town and sack whoever it was that approved drainage plans in these areas in the first place.

3pm- Dash out to pick kids up from school and discuss with other parents,carers and teachers what they want in Cairns to help them build a safe family friendly community.

4pm-Organise a disaster evacuation management plan team.

4.30pm- Wave bye to Factman and knock off early because I have done more than the Mayor has done in years.

Anonymous said...

Thinking Caps On!

Ok, now go back in time to the previous to last Federal election.
Where’s Warren signs abound.
Then some fine resident took offence to one of them.
All coming back now?
Have a look through the court records and I’m sure you’ll find what you need.
From my recollection the legal president went something like;
If you are offended in any way shape or form by any political advertising signage you may and without damaging it remove it from its location and lay it face down on the ground and walk away!
Check the facts, the Cairns Post may have reported on it way back when.
And while checking records you might even find a reference to the Australia Post v Cairns City Council re McCoombe St.

Look Thoroughly

Enough Rope

PS: a question for Factman;
Why was Kevin sacked from his employment in PNG? Surly in such a corrupt environment it’s virtually imposable to be sacked!

Anonymous said...

Alright anonymous above, don't try and be clever. The PGN Government are difficult for anyone to work for. Just ask anyone who has ever worked there.

Anonymous said...

A disgrace to find "Cairns city council is the most corrupt council in Australia"
That's the inside goss from under the door at todays state health meetings.
It's very hard for the state government to lobby The Feds for health funding e.g. projected demand on future health services, like hospitals, when the mayor sees the hospital issue as a money making exercise, as he does with everything he touches. The idea of mayor being the city father would result in no weekend visits and 100 km restraining order with offender tag and tracking devise
He's what's called in PGN as NO GOOD

Anonymous said...

With global warming, we can expect much more rainfall and flooding in Cairns. Wonder if the network of underground drains beneath the CBD will be able to cope? Come to think of it, has the Council even bothered factoring in global warming on our area? Has there been any public conference on it here????

Anonymous said...

Kevin Byrne was appointed Chief Executive of the Papua New Guinea Tourism Promotion Authority. His contract with the Papua New Guinea Government concluded in December 1999 and he then returned to Cairns.
Some say he was "sacked" to make way for a PNG national who wanted the "big man" status, of being the Chairman of the PNG Tourism Promotion Authority.
This happened after he announced he would run for mayor of our city.

Next question?

Anonymous said...

Ok so the Mayor has said it is a Political sign. We can now argue about the size 06m2.
After reading the Cairns Post article and watching 7 news re this sign, all it does is reinforce the fact that Council have scant regard for their local laws, or the Cairns Plan.

Anonymous said...

Next question?

Just how much Factman has the esteemed Mayor paid for all those long lunches and red vino's at Villa Romana?

Anonymous said...

factman, well as you asked :)

I used to be a unity supporter, but I have recently begun to see a very arrogant side to the council, is the mayor, as leader, concerned about this mounting public awareness? Will council eat humble pie and remind themselves that they were elected by the people to serve the people. "People" does not equal large developers.

Anonymous said...

Heres one for ya factman.
Do you remove your head from Kevs butt before or after he goes to sleep at night?
Its amazing you seem to be the only one capable in the entire City of getting the facts correct.
You obviously know your stuff but do you think we would really believe you aren't bias in these facts?
You must be pretty influential in council as they treat us as idiots with the same disdain you do.

Anonymous said...

Where is the cairns post reporters?
Who is gagging them from reporting what is going on around the place?
Not much being said about all the flooding of houses thru cairns let alone the stuff up at gordonvale.
It was mentioned to me that the new development of units at brinsmead/ redlynch road, opposite harvey road had flooding thru their garages and vehicles.
Now how can someone obtain permission to build this type of monstrosity on a flood plane and right next to a busy highway.
Owners and investors are certainly going to lose dollars on this one.
Come on reporters start showing some real stuff that is going on before I stop buying this propaganda rag.

Anonymous said...

Alright, one of my best friends also worked for the PNG Government....and God help her, she didn't deserve what happened...just leave this PNG thing out. I don't blame Kev and I don't blame my friend....Just stop this crap....The PNG Government is very difficult...that is about all I can say. Just stop it!!!!

Anonymous said...

Correct Factman. KB only returned to Cairns because he heard the man who anihilated him in the 1995 election, Tom Pyne, was retiring. Did he come back because he actually loved Cairns and wanted to see the best for it? No. Of course not. Had Pyne not retired Byrne would never have come back. And when he was asked, if he was to lose the elction would he remain in Cairns? He couldn't commit. Does that sound like someone who deep down really wants the best for our town, and would live here regardless of what job he's in, simply because he loves the place? Or someone who's in it for the money and power status that it brings?

Anonymous said...

"Whopping big electoral signs are not an issue in Douglas at least, they are illegal up here, so we didn't have the Douglas roads lined with McKillops and Turnours last November for example.

We are a shity-sign-challenged society up here. I'll overcome my handicap by taking a crook mug shot, with me squeezing someone's baby, for a core flute exhibition in Palm Cove, nonetheless. My last signs have made it into several famous, out the back, house toilet galleries, but more because of what they said, than how they looked.

"IN ROD WE TRUST" was maybe a bit over the top, but hey, it made me laugh. And even more dangerously, hey, they got me elected, eek.

I've gone in big on electoral signage (attached), trading 12 beers for a VOTE sign, , dutifully stuck on my Renault's side door in barely readable font, all beautifully executed by an international conglomerate of marketing gurus. Me.

At least the cops will now know which car to pull over for some front page mileage. My on air moans about traffic carnage being caused by a lot more than just speeding, sure aint politically ...

Your blogmaster skills, Michael, are but part of your multi-media mastery, and I look forward to our weekly radio wraps each week, so we can share the libel suit costs, what the hell.

Sorry our Port Douglas Radio on 90.9FM does not reach Cairns yet, and so is indeed a local gig. Us independent media types sure keep things interesting, even without Bikini girls and croc stories, albeit its a perilous life.

But it's OK, my son Sam is doing law, thank goodness.

So Vote Rod for division TEN, and in TEN we can trust there will be the wildest side show in the whole Cairns local erection.

And, should fate roll my way in the Ides of March election, things in the Cairns Council will certainly not be dull.

Rod Davis...Port Douglas's unusual councillor...0418 235 561

Anonymous said...

Factman or should we call you Fictionman??

Your reply re Kev’s departure from PNG!! If you’re happy with the answer you’ve given so be it.
For others who have commented and have had bad experiences in PNG through work or other situations, my sympathies go to you.
BUT you should know that no matter how much money is thrown at some things the truth will always shine through. This might happen next week or six months down the track, who knows? Oh it wasn’t work related, who knew?
Speaking of throwing money at things, I’d guess you (Factman/fictionman) have some clever answer in relation to Azure Waters Palm Cove.
How KB pleaded the fifth when he was asked about his wife’s unlawful activities! Oh that’s right he’s not the a Yank, though he most likely dreams he was President-Dictator of somewhere slightly larger than Cairns.
Your turn!

Enough Rope

Anonymous said...

Noticed the share price of CEC has taken a dive. Clearly without Kevin Byrne as mayor their profits are going to go down as well

Anonymous said...

So, let me get this right. You want the results of the trade missions to be made public. So, I pay to go on a trade mission, I give up time running my business, I go to all of the trouble to make important contacts and leads in China, and then come back and tell my competitors who I am talking to, and who my conatcts are. So they get the advantage of all my costs and hard work for nix! Get real guys - you are living in La la land!

Anonymous said...

What a load of nonsense.

Firstly, I was actually on some of these trade missions to China (and so was Cnr Sheppard - who KB told to shut up) You were not so don't talk about things you don't know about. Business was generated to the benefit of Cairns thanks to KB, David Maguire and others.

Why don't you stop writing utter negative crap, and actually do something positive for Cairns, fool?

BTW, I since moved from Cairns because of inbreds like you.