tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post6377379753637296650..comments2024-01-20T10:32:53.309+10:00Comments on CairnsBlog.net: Council planners say no to Freebody's water park planMichael P Moorehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02890121680113642715noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-45514711769936049092009-09-22T21:26:32.774+10:002009-09-22T21:26:32.774+10:00Factman, thank you for your explanation on when yo...Factman, thank you for your explanation on when you believe Councillors should override officers recommendations. <br /><br />You state inter alia:<br />"It is then up to the Council of elected representatives to decide if that philosophy is best for Cairns."<br /><br />Philosophies and Visions are best left enshrined in Statutory documents such as Town Plans etc. Whenever, those Statutory documents come up for renewal that is the time to revisit you philosophy and vision.<br /><br />Stability and consistency is paramount at all levels of Government particularly more so at the local level.<br /><br />While Councillor discretion is something Councillors fight hard to retain, if applied capriciously it can be counter productive and may lead to corruption, vis the Wollongong Council.<br /><br />Application of the law even in Town Planning matters is based primarily on precedents. If Council at its whim were to override Officer's recommendation then where does it stop. One does not have to be a Philadelphia Lawyer to cite a precedent to argue that the Appeal should be upheld.<br /><br />Further into your commentary you state the following:<br /><br />"And as an old Labor Party political hack, you Ross, will appreciate what "spin" is all about". <br /><br />This is a little disingenuous Factman. For your information I have never been a member of the Labor Party.<br /><br /> Politically, I am Independent and have been so for over 30 years. Generally, I do believe that all political parties espouse some positive aspects. As an Independent one does have the ability to remain loyal to your constituents.<br /><br />I supported Val in the last election because it was time for a change and I was concerned in the direction Kevin Byrne was taken Cairns and his style of administration.<br /><br />Finally, Caravonica 'Flood Prevention' Levee Bank. <br /><br />As a born and bred local I have waded through the 1967, 1974, 1977, 1979, 1982 and the most recent 1999 flood and I know first hand the extent of the flooding. Three of those floods occurred while I was a Councillor on Mulgrave.<br /><br />The recorded flood heights and the flooding behavour have not altered with the passage of time. The data is still accurate even after 30 years!<br /><br />If anything Climate change will exacerbate the flooding in the Delta.<br /><br />The recently constructed Levee bank will be useless in preventing inundation of Caravonica unless Figtree Drive roadway that acts as a levee bank is raised and flood gates added to the culverts.<br /><br />Caravonica predominately built on a dormant Barron River bed will be inundated with back up water from Avondale Creek which for all practical purposes is the dormant Barron River.<br /><br />I rest my case!Ross Parisinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-88658902681618390242009-09-22T15:33:28.293+10:002009-09-22T15:33:28.293+10:00The dear old "Compost" will give it fron...The dear old "Compost" will give it front page banner headlines if the Council rejects the application. Then there will be a sanctimonious editorial berating the Council for not providing jobs....nocturnal congressnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-17509699505965205742009-09-22T11:45:45.706+10:002009-09-22T11:45:45.706+10:00I'm interseted to see the VERY small col/cm sp...I'm interseted to see the VERY small col/cm space given to the planning report on this development in today's paper. Not even a pic. I would have thought given the space priority the development has been given previously, the Post would have been a much louder voice giving this information to residentsThe Essence of Good Tastehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07433317457293859023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-23364903238280568992009-09-22T07:44:29.317+10:002009-09-22T07:44:29.317+10:00Hi Ross ...
All Council Officers that write repor...Hi Ross ...<br /><br />All Council Officers that write reports/recommendations to Council do so with the upmost integrity. <br />I have done such reports myself.<br />But all reports can accentuate a philosophy, be it ecological, environment, economic or social.<br />It is then up to the Council of elected representatives to decide if that philosophy is best for Cairns.<br />They will use the democratic institution established under the principles of Westminster to decide.<br />Council officers will then, without question, carry out their duties.<br />And as an old Labor Party political hack, you Ross, will appreciate what "spin" is all about.<br />You must be awestruck by the high speed rotation that has emulated from Brisbane since the Beatie/Bligh governments came to power.<br />But I digress. Regarding Caravonica. <br />If you read Mayor Val's comments on Council's official website you will see that you differ from her.<br />Her comments were based on Council's consultants report, undertaken by Connell Wagner Consulting Engineers. They undertook extensive modelling of the Barron River drainage system and hence the mitigation works recently completed.<br />They obtained their engineering expertise the hard way, by degree from university, not by being elected as a council rep.<br />Now, if you would like to come and see me at Council, I will show you the latest map of 100 year inundation for the Barron Delta.<br />This overlay takes into account a lot more factors than ever before including the effects of global warming. Then you will have the latest “facts”, not ones that are 30 years out of date.<br />Back to the Freebody water park.<br />It will be comforting to think that while the hospital and airport are inoperable and underwater, the kids will still enjoy sliding down the slippery slopes at the water park in Dillon Road, Smithfield, if Council approve it<br /><br />Cheers<br />FactmanFactmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-14237966387350018802009-09-21T22:26:17.050+10:002009-09-21T22:26:17.050+10:00Factman, please be factual not just in name!
Land...Factman, please be factual not just in name!<br /><br />Landuse applications of such magnitude must not be politicised.<br /><br />Council's Town Planning Officers are professional servants and have all the facts at their disposal. Their recommendations are usually non biased and are based on facts and not emotion.<br /><br />Approval of this application against the Town Planning Officer's recommendations would place Council in a difficult legal bind and cost the residents and ratepayers possibly hundreds of thousand of dollars in legal fees and outside additional reports. <br /><br />It would not be legally sustainable to ask the Town Planning Officers to reverse their report/recommendations to one that would support the application.<br /><br />Approval of this application against Officers recommendations will establish a legal precedent and may open up the Delta for wholesale developmental pressure.<br /><br />Finally, the Caravonica Flood Mitigation Scheme with due respect, is a white elephant and a waste of fund unless the levee bank which is Figtree Drive is raised in height and flood gates installed on the northern side of the culverts.<br />These culverts drain upstream local flood waters and are located in an old Barron River bed. How will Council stop flood water backing up Avondale Creek as they do with ever flood? <br /><br />Where are the pumps stations located to drain the back up waters that will enter the Caravonica township?<br /><br />Factman and that's a fact...Ross Parisinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-74588401266330731792009-09-21T20:23:35.971+10:002009-09-21T20:23:35.971+10:00Just because the Manager, Development Assessment h...Just because the Manager, Development Assessment has recommended against this development does not mean it will not be approved.<br /><br />And because this park does not "conserve or enhance the scenic landscape of the City which includes the significant qualities of the rural landscape", or, "is contrary to Desired Environmental Outcome 2.3.4 Preservation of Resources in as much as the proposed development does not protect natural resources such as good quality agricultural land from the adverse effects of urban development", or "the development does not constitute the establishment of outdoor<br />recreation based on the appreciation of the natural or rural environment".<br /><br />The Councillor's may decide that the resulting few millimetres of inundation over some cane fields every 100 years does not rate against the benefits this park will bring to Cairns.<br /><br />As Cr Schier has stated regarding the Caravonica Flood Mitigation works just completed ...<br /><br />"Mayor Val Schier said that the scheme, which was jointly funded by Local, State and Federal Government, helps provide protection from future flooding for the 460 homes which were effected by the 1967, 1977 and 1979 floods."<br /><br />Let sanity prevail ... looking at the map you will see that the airport also goes under in a 100 year event.<br /><br />And that's a fact ...Factmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-1476545163670697432009-09-21T19:20:37.253+10:002009-09-21T19:20:37.253+10:00No cooee from Paul yet - where are you, Paul, Paul...No cooee from Paul yet - where are you, Paul, Paul, Paul . . . . .Lillian at Yorkeysnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-54556685100173759532009-09-20T11:40:17.004+10:002009-09-20T11:40:17.004+10:00Paul Freebody, we are not interested in your spin ...Paul Freebody, we are not interested in your spin on recycled water that would operate your adventure park. <br /><br />That is no big deal really. Your spin dudes need to address the real issues not feel 'good stuff'<br /><br />Please address the issues of how would you inhibit the flow of flood water through your park considering your park is located smack bang in the middle of an old river bed.<br /><br />If levee banks are your answer how would that effect down stream, upstream and adjacent farmers.<br /><br />Why did you choose this spot in the first place?<br /><br />As a corporate citizen and an ex Councillor do you think you have a responsibility to the overall orderly management of the Barron River Delta?<br /><br />The above observations/queries are where you should address your attention.<br /><br />We need answers not spin!Ross Parisinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-78922032750008748542009-09-19T20:21:51.070+10:002009-09-19T20:21:51.070+10:00Sigh!! English grammar, interpretive and analytica...Sigh!! English grammar, interpretive and analytical skills are on the decline, folks. It's why people believed in "weapons of mass destruction" and why they love Sno Bonneau. It's why they believe "sex tourism" in the Asian countries is the sole action of "sick" single men, and not married men hiding behind their shopaholic wives. It's wny they believe Sept. 11 was caused by Iraqi Al Qaeda operatives trained by Suddein Hussein.......<br />The English language is being changed to the primitive language of neanderthals....nocturnal congressnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-60302940365029199622009-09-19T20:04:42.855+10:002009-09-19T20:04:42.855+10:00We have natural water park GBR and also rainforest...We have natural water park GBR and also rainforest waterfalls. Plus sugarworld. Sad if people prefer man made to natural.Verdant Cairns (via Twitter)http://twitter.com/VerdantCairnsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-44645613102630560582009-09-19T14:12:33.413+10:002009-09-19T14:12:33.413+10:00Portmultimedia and Paul Freebody, if your English ...Portmultimedia and Paul Freebody, if your English grammar is any guide to your other skills then we are doomed and can understand why you would put your 'Gold Coast' look alike in the middle of a n old Barron River channel.<br /><br />My advice to you is to go and do some homework on your grammar and business acumen.Zanzaranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-74509486192216418822009-09-19T13:36:17.787+10:002009-09-19T13:36:17.787+10:00Heavens above, Paul Freebody's Lover - what lo...Heavens above, Paul Freebody's Lover - what loyalty! What blindness - sad. Before I go any further, I would suggest that you, PFL, have got no nearer to the Hindu concept of karma than you have to an honest pollie. It's 'karma' with a 'k', not a 'c', dear. <br /><br />Secondly, if PFLover & any other naysayers above would like to educate themselves as to why the site of this project is totally inappropriate, I suggest you go back to the Ross Parisi article (on the Blog) of September 2nd entitled 'Moratorium on development in the Barron River and Thomatis Delta'. This article actually gives the REASONS why such a development, in such a place, is a nonsense.<br /><br />As other writers above have noted, such a development could be put elsewhere in Cairns that is not prone to flooding, & would not cause such an ecological & building disaster to the Barron River Delta as the current proposal does. <br /><br />Factman has obviously not taken his meds recently - a water park, Facto, apart from the water, consists of slides, rides, kiosks, dunnies, staff buildings, ie. infrastructure of all sorts which need to stay dry. And the punters won't come if they have to walk through a couple of feet of water for a 'fun' afternoon.<br /><br />And lastly, perhaps a separate topic, is why, when disagreeing with opinions, that the disagreers, when (usually) they've run out of fact or theory, resort to denigration & name-calling, eg.. PFLover above "I will say that most of the people who comment on this blog are nobody's [sic] who have done nothing in life & never will". <br /><br />Here, I'm not picking on PFLover, but rather, making a comment about public comment in Australia, in general. This stuff happens all the time: not just here on the Blog, but take a look at the TXT messages in the Compost. Think about Sandilands' recent comment about Magda Subanski & concentration camps. Think (Blog) Bryan Law & Syd Walker at loggerheads (a case for a professional mediation if I've ever seen - get it together guys) <br /><br />In Australian media culture there seems to be some expectation that if one insults another, then the insulter is somehow 'winning' the argument against the insultee. Whereas, usually the argument has ceased, & the insulters comments simply becomes a rant. <br /><br />I dare say this goes back to convict society, & not 'dobbing' on your fellow convict. Additionally, I think that the 'negative comment' aspect of media response in Oztralia has a lot to do with us still being a young [white] culture, whereas in Europe, such comments would not even be published. OK, a generalism, but I think a truism.<br /><br />OK, enough. Time for MY meds. I realise I've somewhat insulted Factman above. Then again - he's SO silly.....Lillian at Yorkeysnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-72119195101495855062009-09-19T12:20:01.937+10:002009-09-19T12:20:01.937+10:00Northern Beaches Warrior, you know that there are ...Northern Beaches Warrior, you know that there are no creeks in Clifton Beach, only drainage easements, so you can bulldoze and build over these no problems. It is interesting to watch the water bubble up through the concrete though, and when it does rain, the runoff pours out down Escape Close, whereas before it just used to soak into the ground. The roof isn't that crash hot either when it rains, buckets outside Coles to catch the water, and as for the floors??? Sorry getting off topic, next time you drive past the proposed water park, remind yourself it has to be built above Q100 and then look at the flood level road markers.Jude Johnstonnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-56776916900228738812009-09-19T11:53:17.318+10:002009-09-19T11:53:17.318+10:00Oh PortMultimedia, that last rant isn't from y...Oh PortMultimedia, that last rant isn't from you again unless your ability to write logical language has matched Freebody's?<br /><br />We can all see through it and it's such a shame that you would drop to his level. <br /><br />Again, very few are saying don't build a venture like this. We are just saying that the location is the wrong place. <br /><br />"Your" argument suggests that your can understand a senior professional experts report and the recomendations. <br /><br />Your argument is right out of the mouth of sad loney Freebody. Do yourself a favour, and don't reprint anymore of his incoherant dribble that doesn't make sence.Mary-Anne Lindsay, Cairnsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-5948523181796979562009-09-19T10:22:19.476+10:002009-09-19T10:22:19.476+10:00As many others have said, we (regular bloggers) ar...As many others have said, we (regular bloggers) are not necessarily against the idea of a waterpark, it is just the current location.<br /><br />The Clifton Beach Shopping centre site was also the wrong location.<br /><br />Every year, it too goes underwater!!<br /><br />What do you mean I hear you ask?<br /><br />Well, the geological engineers, Council, Sno Bonneau and the then owner, Frank Vita built the shopping centre on what was a seasonal creek. Yes, the bulldozers came out, bulldozed in the creek, and built a great big shopping centre on top.<br /><br />I'll tell Factman and all the other stupid people just what happens when you build in an area that is ill suited.......<br /><br />Well, every year when it rains, and the seasonal creeks fill up with water and the water table in Clifton Beach rises to the surface, then so it comes abubbling up through the underground car park. The whole car park underneath fills up with about 5-8cm of water. The cement floor has cracks many mms in width in a grid-like pattern of about 1m square, all over it, where the water has forced its way to the surface, split the concrete and no doubt is rotting the foundations below.<br /><br />I was there on friday and noticed that the area around some of the cracking is now turning a rusty brown colour, so it would seem that the steel re-inforcing is now rusting, and this rusty water is now also coming to the surface and stainging the floor of the car park.<br /><br />Do not be surprised if that shopping centre falls down some time soon. It is less that 5 yrs old.<br /><br />So I hope I have answered some of those who thought that it would be OK to build a waterpark and let it go under water every year......<br /><br />It is not OK to build something that is going to pose another significant public risk.<br /><br />We have enough of those already!Northern Beaches Warriornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-42691574995630776602009-09-19T09:37:32.185+10:002009-09-19T09:37:32.185+10:00I believe I am about as environmentally aware as m...I believe I am about as environmentally aware as most if not more so and I think this proposals impact on the environment would not even be a pinhead compared to what ends up in the inlet down at Portsmith... until they take seriously what ends up washing into the inlet at Portsmith don’t talk to me about a stand alone recycled water adventure park attraction killing the reef and river system... the cane does more damage to the waterways around here than a semi-closed reticulated water treatment system will ever cause. We are talking about a major piece of tourism infrastructure that will create hundreds of local jobs and get used by both locals and visitors alike day in day out for many years to come. Everyone keeps quoting the chief planners report and uses that as a dooms day trigger for this project but in reality, when the chief planner makes a recommendation on a project it merely means the project has not met certain criteria pertaining to the codes that apply to that ‘zone’. These criteria are just a series of ‘interpretive guidelines’ and for every regulation yin there is a regulation yang. The planner just applies everything yin that he deems relevant and each issue then gets addressed via yang until a resolution (what ever the case) is agreed on.portmultimediahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14800135915114886024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-12849065328988146812009-09-19T09:00:49.312+10:002009-09-19T09:00:49.312+10:00What's with the obsession with tourism, develo...What's with the obsession with tourism, development and growth in this town?<br /><br />Do we have a 12.5% unemployment rate because of this obsession?<br /><br />Contrary to the Mayor's belief that everyone benefits from tourism in this town, I have never made a cent from it. In fact, it is only a cash cow for a very small percent.<br /><br />Can't we build sustainable industry that gives people real, permanent jobs, instead of these fly by night spivs who never seem to lose when their 'business' goes bust?<br /><br />A water park would be a nice step in fulfilling our 'Gold Coast envy', but put it somewhere appropriate. <br /><br />No doubt, it will price locals out of going there anyway, like the ski park, $50 an hour.<br /><br />H.Bosch.calmer mate calmernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-40723522027609169422009-09-19T08:53:27.687+10:002009-09-19T08:53:27.687+10:00Methinks the rant above by Paul Freebody's Lov...Methinks the rant above by Paul Freebody's Lover is none other than Paul Freebody. The spelling and gramatical construction are identical, and the base anger oozes through. A TAFE course in business English and an anger management course could help you with both these issues Paul.Just another nobodynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-65215007918352150232009-09-18T21:40:17.767+10:002009-09-18T21:40:17.767+10:00I think if you check carefully "Candid Kamara...I think if you check carefully "Candid Kamara" - I didn't write the Council report giving 65 pages of reasons why this developement application should be rejected.<br /><br />Why doesn't Mr Freebody find another location? I would definately support it then, and the Council engineers and planners would too I dare say.<br /><br />MikeCairnsBloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00462006385979873757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-13113365144031102282009-09-18T21:30:22.089+10:002009-09-18T21:30:22.089+10:00As usual, CairnsBog with its fair, balanced and ac...As usual, CairnsBog with its fair, balanced and accurate reporting (sarcasm font needed there). Yes, Freebody may be a complete idiot, but this whole vendetta is about Mike the 'Yorkeys Knob' trying to protect his beloved Northern Beaches suburb.<br /><br />With a 12.5% employment rate in Cairns, yeah, let's snub a water park, the best idea this place has had since the lagoon.<br /><br />God, you lot really are tree-huggers aren't you. How pathetic.Candid Kamaranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-15015486975681949492009-09-18T21:20:30.825+10:002009-09-18T21:20:30.825+10:00Thanks for the reminder Nocturnal Congress.
Here&...Thanks for the reminder Nocturnal Congress.<br /><br />Here's Paul Freebody's wonderful <a href="http://www.cairnsblog.net/2008/02/blind-leading-blind.html" rel="nofollow">Council election leaflet</a>.<br /><br />See if you can spot the similarties :-)<br /><br />Cheers,<br />Mike<br /><br />PS: Paul was also responsible for <a href="http://www.cairnsblog.net/2008/02/kathy-plath-has-to-be-joking.html" rel="nofollow">Kathy Plath's leaflet</a>.<br /><br />They both were not re-elected. Wonder why?CairnsBloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00462006385979873757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-19975485067263543192009-09-18T21:15:41.274+10:002009-09-18T21:15:41.274+10:00Hahaha Freebody.
We can see your writing skills ...Hahaha Freebody. <br /><br />We can see your writing skills haven't changed since your famous election leaflets (I think they were on this blog)<br /><br />What a crazy sad and angry little man. <br /><br />Your God should pray for you.<br /><br />Also, try booking in for a check up next week, before Wednesday's meeting. I think you might need it mate.Jenny F James - Cityviewnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-75973671997028148662009-09-18T20:49:28.680+10:002009-09-18T20:49:28.680+10:00"Paul Freebody's lover".....how'..."Paul Freebody's lover".....how's your spelling, mate? Funny, it looks as bad as a certain election leaflet which Mike posted on this blog. ROFL ROFL. Paul, mate, use a dictionary if you want to post a comment!!! "carma!" BWAH HA HAHA!!nocturnal congressnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-89381410578704400302009-09-18T20:44:38.978+10:002009-09-18T20:44:38.978+10:00I thought Freebody was in partnership with the for...I thought Freebody was in partnership with the former Councillor, Kathy Plath, on the Water Park. What happened?nocturnal congressnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7878592054777492431.post-18670087692644092942009-09-18T20:43:27.607+10:002009-09-18T20:43:27.607+10:00What's that rant all about above?
Your arg...What's that rant all about above? <br /><br />Your argument, whoever you are, gets very personal. <br /><br />I read through most of what's been written on the blog, and today's summery of teh Council officer's recomendation, yet you persaonally attack the guy behind this website? Shouldn't you be slamming the Council officer?<br /><br />How odd.Brian W, Kewerranoreply@blogger.com