Comments on CairnsBlog.net: In the Navy

2009-06-30T21:22:00.376+10:00

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Syd, I like to think I may have had some input.

2009-06-30T17:00:19.895+10:00

Syd, I like to think I may have had some input.

I think the more humane treatment of refugees has ...

2009-06-30T13:19:01.935+10:00

I think the more humane treatment of refugees has been one of the clearest and most positive differences between the Rudd Government and its predecessor.

If you helped achieve that, Alison, good on you. You scored a win.

Hehehe Colin. I never liked Thatcher much. I was...

2009-06-30T12:56:38.242+10:00

Hehehe Colin. I never liked Thatcher much. I was just impressed how she stood up and demanded and got equality with Raegan. I am friendly with a retired couple here in Cairns who were members of the same Conservative Party branch in London as Thatcher. Their opinions of Thatcher have just surprised me...they despised her and cannot say a single good word about her! An odd thing...Thatcher was developing Alzheimer's when she was leader of the Conservative Party. Raegan of course also had the first stages of Alzheimer's while in office. Scarey stuff!

Alison this is what I was talking about -By Terry ...

2009-06-30T12:40:37.167+10:00

Alison this is what I was talking about -By Terry Cook and Mike Head
25 October 2003
The Greens are neither genuine opponents of imperialist war nor of the criminal policies of the Bush administration. That is why, after making his limited protest, Brown rushed to shake Bush’s hand, later boasting that he “got a double handshake”.
He looked like the biggest bum kisser of all time!ps I liked maggie t , one tough woman/leader.

Colin, the sycophancy of Australian politicians to...

2009-06-30T12:04:13.890+10:00

Colin, the sycophancy of Australian politicians towards the American President is galling to say the least. However Bob Brown did speak out against the Iraq War.
The one thing I admired about Maggie Thatcher was that she demanded and received equality with the American President.

Gee Allison you were doing ok until you called bob...

2009-06-30T11:42:36.773+10:00

Gee Allison you were doing ok until you called bob brown a politician, I cannot get the sight of him in canberra leaping over the top of fellow pollies to shake the hand of dubya bush , talk about a two faced cur , he lost me for good that day , it would have done billy slater justice , all that AFTER he bagged him before his visit , weirdo that bloke !

Alison, It is a petty you get offended when peopl...

2009-06-30T11:35:33.793+10:00

Alison,

It is a petty you get offended when people don't agree with you.

What is really weird is that you think I have trivialised your opinions and views somehow.I have done no such thing, but as a self-proclamed expert on Muslims and the Middle East you obviously don't tolerate any dissent.

The Moroccans I was talking about are very Westernised too. In fact they were born in Holland.

I don't know where you get your information from re. poverty in Holland, but the welfare system in Holland makes Australia look like a third world country. No poverty in Australia ? How blind are you ?
You don't have to look very far...

Maybe you should broaden your mind a bit and expose yourself to a few different opinions. have you read Ayaan Hirsi Ali yet ?

Goodbye and enjoy your blissful ignorance...

Syd, I actually applied for a position as Electora...

2009-06-30T11:16:05.261+10:00

Syd, I actually applied for a position as Electorate Officer with Jim Turnour, but did not get the job. However, I was able to speak with both Kevin Rudd and Wayne Swan about the fate of Iraqi refugees. I was very close to Kevin Rudd when I raised the issue and was pleasantly surprised to see a rapid display of emotions on his face. (Unlike Swan who has cold eyes.) Rudd displays emotion. He took about two minutes before replying that he was aware of the dreadful human cost of the Iraq war and that if elected as Prime Minister he would try and do something. Julian Burnside whom I also spoke with on the same subject told me that "the Rudd Government are keeping the lines of communication open on refugees, and that is the difference between them and the previous Government."
I was pleased to see that Rudd has permitted a couple of hundred Iraqis "who helped the Australian troops" to migrate to Australia.
It isn't much, I know, but I like to think I may have had some bearing on that. I guess we just do what we can. I believe one day Australia will be asked to "cough up" big for our share of war reparations for Iraq. The tragedy is, we only had one politician in Australia speaking out against the illegal war...Bob Brown.

Alison, I think FNQ is fortunate to have your obvi...

2009-06-30T09:51:34.119+10:00

Alison, I think FNQ is fortunate to have your obvious expertise on issues to do with the Arab and Muslim worlds.

It would be nice to think Jim Turnour regularly draws on such expertise from within his electorate - so he doesn't just parrot handed-down talking-points from the 'Rudd Labor Government'.

After all, the clever Japanese could build a robot to do that - and even make it look like Noddy.

Nick, the Moroccans I spoke with were very Western...

2009-06-30T09:34:33.954+10:00

Nick, the Moroccans I spoke with were very Westernised. I don't know how Holland handles poverty, but poverty is a perfect breeding incubator for unrest. Australia has largely avoided much of this because of our welfare state.
I'm going to end my conversation on this and with you. I have spent many years studying the Middle East, made many contacts, spent thousands of hours speaking with Muslim people around the world, made some very dear friends in Iraq, acquired a good library on the Middle East and am planning to do a tour of ME countries.
I am one of the very few Australians who has taken the time and effort to be well informed, however you have trivialised my opinions and views in a boorish and supercilious manner at all times. Goodbye.

"I have spoken with Moroccans living in Holla...

2009-06-30T08:29:42.166+10:00

"I have spoken with Moroccans living in Holland...they tell me there is rising fanaticism because of poverty and marginalisation in Holland."

Indeed, but how are the Dutch to blame for that ? Muslims of Turkish descent have integrated and prospered very well. The opportunities and support have always been there, yet some groups do better than others.

"Not all Muslim countries have forced marriages or circumcism of women. In my own studies of the Qu'uran, I can't find any references there whatsoever to circumcism ".

That's exactly my point. And people object to those type of practices being introduced into a modern, secular society ,all in the name of Islam, especially when they have nothing to do with Islam.

"Before you lecture me on discrimination of women Nick, I would remind you I am in my 50s, so have lived through some of the worst elements of discrimination towards women in my own country."

I wouldn't dream of lecturing you on feminism , Alison. I am also in my 50's and my mother was and still is a staunch feminist.

I think it is fair to say that the Dutch, with the Scandinavians, were in the forefront of the struggle for gender equality.
This is precisely why people object to backward practices being re-introduced in the Netherlands.People do not want Sharia law and intolerant, extremist beliefs in their society.

Theo van Gogh said as much and paid with his life. Ayaan Hirsi Ali said as much and received death threats. Read some of her writings, as it might give you a different perspective.

Finally, as Dutchie pointed out, this is totally off-topic, but I'll gladly continue this debate elsewhere.

As far as protests go against the American ships. There was a navy vessel from NZ in town recently. NZ troops are also in Afghanistan, but I did not see any protests. I did not see any protests when Australian navy ships returned from active duty either.There was also a French navy ship in town a while ago. The French are also involved in Afghanistan (and let's not mention the Rainbow Warrior !), yet not a protester in sight. Do I spot some inconsistency here ?

Nick, thanks for setting the record straight about...

2009-06-30T00:16:42.171+10:00

Nick, thanks for setting the record straight about the cartoon being Danish, and issues facing not only Holland but many other countries in the EU, even though this discussion hasn't got much to do with the initial topic...

Nick, I try to talk with as many people as possibl...

2009-06-29T22:28:24.594+10:00

Nick, I try to talk with as many people as possible living inside the various countries.

I have spoken with Moroccans living in Holland...they tell me there is rising fanaticism because of anti-Americanism and also because of poverty and marginalisation in Holland.

Not all Muslim countries have forced marriages or circumcism of women. In my own studies of the Qu'uran, I can't find any references there whatsoever to circumcism.

I also grew up with Muslims. There is a small but significant population in Mareeba...and no, they are not all Albanians. There was never any problems with the group.

Before you lecture me on discrimination of women Nick, I would remind you I am in my 50s, so have lived through some of the worst elements of discrimination towards women in my own country. Having a natural interest in feminism, I have been following womens movements around the world, in particular the Afghani Womens Group RAWA.

Alison, It was a Dutch film-maker, who had his th...

2009-06-29T13:53:29.347+10:00

Alison,

It was a Dutch film-maker, who had his throat slashed by a Dutch Muslim, because of perceived insult of Islam. It was also a Dutch Muslim MP (from Somali descent) who had to go into hiding after denouncing the Muslim faith. She objected to many facets of the Muslim faith like forced marriages, rape in marriage, female circumcision and the general inequality of women( and many moderate Muslims would agree with her).

It was a Danish newspaper that published the cartoons.It was no deliberate attack on Islam, it was about suicide bombers.

Do you condone murder and bomb attacks as a reaction to the right of free speech in the Netherlands and Denmark ?

I can assure you that many Christians feel offended and hurt when people insult their faith, but they don't resort to violence at the slightest perceived insult.

The tension that has developed in the Netherlands between Muslims and non-Muslims is from the last 10 years. Most of the Muslims I am referring to here are 3rd generation Dutch from Moroccan descent,who have embraced a radical extreme version of the Muslim faith.

I grew up in the Netherlands and lived and worked with many Muslims in the 70's. As a society, the Netherlands (and Denmark as well) bent over backwards to accommodate our Muslim new-comers and there was a great deal of mutual respect and tolerance.

It is not as if these people were ever being suppressed or held against their will.We did not invade their territories or steal their resources.

What has developed is that this tolerance is now increasingly being met with intolerance. There are calls for the banning of pork and alcohol, Dutch girls are called whores, because of the way they dress and behave (gang rapes, not dissimilar from the ones that took place in Sydney are being explained away, because the victim"was asking for it") while Muslim girls are being "guarded' by male relatives and get attacked if they go out with non-Muslim boys or refuse to be forced into arranged marriages.

Then we have groups of Moroccan youth singing anti Jewish slogans like : Gas all Jews" at soccer matches.It is not strange that Dutch people react to this and object to their free and tolerant society being dragged backwards by extremists whose mindset is set in the Middle Ages.

Many of these people are stuck in a time-warp and would be considered as extremist in their countries of origin, which have developed a more moderate and modern attitude over the years.

You might have access to all sort of alternative news services and blogs and read books to get your information. My knowledge on this is first hand, by having lived in and regularly visited these places.

While you are suspicious about the main stream media (and with good reason), you seem to be very "uncritical" about the type of information you receive from your other sources.

Just returned from the wharf ,were channel seven w...

2009-06-29T13:49:40.897+10:00

Just returned from the wharf ,were channel seven were lined up along with the cairns post to witness the mass demonstration brian lawless organised ,well there was 11 of them in white coats ,which is apt considering his juvenile attempt to embarrass our allies !
He and his motley crew were laughed at by bemused residents !wonder how the media were lined up before the throng launched their offensive ? tipped off by mr me me me

Bryan, you are right about how the Japanese were p...

2009-06-29T09:55:16.621+10:00

Bryan, you are right about how the Japanese were put down in Australia prior to WW11. In many places they were denied basic rights similar to aborigines. It is a part of our history which has been well covered up. Perhaps the time might be ripe for some student of modern history to do a thesis on it!

I wandered down and had a gander at the ships. Co...

2009-06-29T09:45:21.009+10:00

I wandered down and had a gander at the ships. Couldn't help but notice all the baby faced US sailors walking up to the CBD. Average age must have been about 19I reckon.

I agree absolutely Think on This. The actions the...

2009-06-29T09:30:35.189+10:00

I agree absolutely Think on This. The actions therefore by the Dutch newspaper was deliberately provocative, but in keeping with the general Western media actions of the time in demonising the Muslim religion. You don't have to lecture me.

So Bryan how many of the Troops as you refer to th...

2009-06-29T09:13:07.063+10:00

So Bryan how many of the Troops as you refer to them were you able to educate with your extensive knowledge of Worldly matters and your Christian beliefs? Did they in fact even care about your presence....I am sure not!!! You just carry on with your illegal grafiti. Try spray painting their ship and challenge them with a subpeona.
I hope the US Navy enjoy their stay in this City and realise we are not all feral like you.

brian lawlessness ,see I can play with your surnam...

2009-06-29T07:05:46.434+10:00

brian lawlessness ,see I can play with your surname also you fool !
I have met big useless protesters like you , that care more about themselves than the supposed protest , as outlaw said earlier take your medicine from desleys crew ,you loved the camera on the days you defaced their property , and no I won,t join you in your barefaced grab for attention on the local news .

Come and join us! 12.30 pm, cnr Wharf and Abbott ...

2009-06-29T03:33:59.623+10:00

Come and join us! 12.30 pm, cnr Wharf and Abbott St today. Lay claim to your democratic heritage. Make clear your opposition to war. Stand up for what you believe in. It's not as hard as you might think, and it offers hope for the future.

Plus if you act now, you'll get a free set of steak knives, and probably win a Nigerian Lottery.

Cheers
Bryan

Third is the idea, completely without foundation, ...

2009-06-29T03:25:54.779+10:00

Third is the idea, completely without foundation, that the US guarantees our freedoms and civil liberties, and we would “all be speaking Japanese” without Big Brother and his big stick. The reality is that most civil rights in the west spring first of all from Magna Carta and Habeas Corpus, limits placed on the Divine Right of Kings to imprison folk without trial. The Bush administration in the US suspended Habeas Corpus in Guantanamo Bay, and Obama has not yet fully brought it back.

I studied the pacific War at Uni, and the kinds of policy decisions made by Britain and the US between WW1 and WW2 were the most racist dribble aimed at containing and keeping subordinate Japan. Remember this was the time of “white Australia”. Ask yourself what might have happened if Australia had conducted then the kind of diplomacy and trade relations we conduct now with Japan. The Pacific War would have been avoided.

Finally on this point there have always been citizens’ movements in Britain, Australia and the US which have protected and advanced civil rights. Eureka stockade, trade unions, suffrage for women, Aboriginal rights, human rights. People have won these freedoms and advances through struggle, organisation and sacrifice by the strong-hearted. Anyone who claims they are a free gift from a foreign country does the greatest disrespect to those who went before us, and left for us the legacy of a democratic Australia rising out of a penal settlement.

Second is the way people pretend some kind of mora...

2009-06-29T03:25:14.587+10:00

Second is the way people pretend some kind of moral equivalence between the US, China, Iran, North Korea etc, and make the claim that any fair-minded peace activist would somehow spend equal time condemning them all. The reality is that I’m an Australian citizen, and Australia does not play any role in fighting wars on behalf of China, Iran etc. When was the last time a North Korean warship visited Cairns? In reality, we are preparing to fight wars against those countries with our allies, the US.

I could mount a pretty decent argument that since the beginning of the 20th Century the US has killed more civilians, and destroyed more civilian infrastructure through the waging of aggressive war that any other country on Earth. If I started my count from 1965 there isn’t any question at all. So as an Australian peace activist my job is to do everything I can to keep Australian policy and action “right” and “peaceful”. This means approaching the US alliance with some independence and candour – factors largely missing today from our political life.

Three Myths that Mislead. First is the personal a...

2009-06-29T03:24:20.542+10:00

Three Myths that Mislead.

First is the personal attack, based on lies quite freely made up, that aim to discredit the messenger without ever acknowledging the message (hello Mr Outlaw). Hence I’m a welfare bludger (even though I work and don’t get welfare). Then I’m supposed to be wholly negative and abusive. Colin riddle implies that I would say “piss off you murdering mongrel” to US troops (reality is I talk with US troops about the advocacy group “GI Rights” which extends legal and personal support to troops experiencing difficulties in their service).

The reality of war is that front line troops are commonly abused, lied to, and put at risk by nefarious and incompetent commanders who gain personally and politically from war, but need someone else to fight it. I remember when this was part of the ANZAC fabric (the misuse of Australian troops by English generals) and it re-surfaced in PNG during WW2, and Vietnam. Peace by Peace puts human rights at the very centre of ALL our actions. So when our critics tell lies about us instead of addressing the issues, I’d like it if people made them stick to the issues and respond to what’s happening in the ugly, murderous wars Australia is now engaged in.